She was born with the cord around her neck, and we had respiratory specialists on hand to assist. Intelligence seems much more similar to personality than height in terms of complexity and diversity of manifestations. That there is some knob which, as you turn it up, it increases intelligence, until you get it too high and then it blows up due to some fact about the dynamics of the system that we dont understand yet. Of course, since intelligence and social aptitude seem to have a slight positive correlation, the real number might be closer to 150,000 or 200,000. A couple of things about her birth stand out when comparing the two with the other children. Slate Star Codex Tag Archives: iq Autism And Intelligence: Much More Than You Wanted To Know Posted on November 13, 2019 by Scott Alexander [Thanks to Marco DG for proofreading and offering suggestions] I. They've also got a blog about what they're doing here. But it adds the concept of a "safe starch" - where the classic paleo diet has a zero tolerance policy toward carbohydrates, the Perfect Health Diet allows certain carbs like rice, potatoes, and lots of weird things like "taro" and "sago". I mean, doesnt that just mean there are lots of hyper-parameters and you can push one set outside the optimal range without maxing out everything? In this study, however, we see strong heterogeneity of genetic overlap with other traits when our ASD samples are broken into distinct subsets. Maybe this is a tower collapse event. 9 hours ago View Detailed Check-in. Social relationships are not difficult and people who cannot navigate them are displaying a serious deficit. at 25/26 and Ph.D. at 29/30, so might not be of the caliber of your acquaintance, though. Moreover, if your family isnt too bright, you might not even recognize that theres something funny about your latest kid. Avoidance of social situations. Its a highly abnormal subset of people. Higher IQ people have lower infant mortality rates than lower IQ people. I am a highly educated (PhD) male parent of a son with autism (aged 17 so in high school), who is in a Special Education class, so I fit the phenotype described here. Autism-risk genes may just be plumping up the middle tiers, those who are noticeably intelligent but not staggering one-in-a-million test cases. How exactly are you defining normal? The idea is that autistic children have more and finer-grained category boundaries, causing them to over-differentiate similar phonemes that most speakers use interchangeably. Strongly agree. It draws on the VPR model of intelligence, where g (general intelligence) is divided into three subtraits, v (verbal intelligence), p (perceptual intelligence), and r (mental rotation ability) despite the very specific names each of these represents ability at broad categories of cognitive tasks. The Western world (taken to mean Europe and the Anglosphere) comprises roughly 1/6th of the global population, which means there should be about 125,000 Westerners who are both incredibly smart and incredibly charismatic. Humans have been selectively breeding themselves since the dawn of civilization, even if we werent consciously aware of it; reproductively speaking, the traits that are selected for in an organized society are bound to differ than those that wouldve been selected for in the wild. Assuming that intelligence is neither positively nor negatively correlated with social skills, that means 1% of those 75 million people would also be in the top percentile for social aptitude, for a total of 750,000 people. This might sound mean, and Im very sorry if this offends anyone, but just seeing what my family has gone through, I would definitely find having a severely disabled child worse than not having one and would likely be unhappy with a child any more than slightly aspie. HIGHLY surprising? I am not particularly confident in the theory either in its parts or in whole. There are ways to reduce the loop gain of the system to increase the maximum gain before feedback, but ultimately they involve careful sound engineering theres no general parameter you can turn down to fix the problem, because the primary parameter you _want_ is the same one that causes the breakdown. And so humans recently had/still are having a massive selection for genes that require lower thresholds for immune responses, and genes that outsource some of the immune de-escalation responsibilities to gut microbes and parasites, etc in order to get a faster jump have proliferated to the point where a lot of these are normal now; this is the hygiene hypothesis or old friends hypothesis and the best outline of I can offer for it is the book An Epidemic of Absence by Moises Velazquez-Manoff. The Charman et al study finds a correlation between autism and low IQ, by starting with a sample of autistic people and looking at their IQs. Another, potentially related, possibility is that we are disproportionately likely to diagnose white kids with autism rather than other forms of mental disability. These are just three randomly-selected studies; there are too many to be worth listing. I havent been keeping up.) I am simply saying that when you encounter lots of GS11+ people they are exactly like Comey. It was my first thought, too admittedly followed by the second thought wait, no, theyll have thought of that one ages ago. This meant that theyd routinely turn them off. (Apologies for a machine metaphor that is certainly misleading, but better than anything else than I can think of.). Under https://slatestarcodex.com/2019/05/07/5-httlpr-a-pointed-review/ Murphy wrote: disorders like huntingtons where its theorized that theres a tradeoff between risk of death and IQ. There are no other cases of autism diagnosed in the immediate family. why is the medical establishment making confident claims regarding the connection between his condition and high-functioning autism? Other interesting question if the Flynn effect is more important than genetics and our mean IQ is 15 points higher than 100 years ago: where are all the geniuses? The dangling paren is disquieting enough to have prompted me to make an account: most of the other statistics mentioned here). Its 100% true. A PhD in particle physics at 15 is incredibly impressive, but a programmer starting out of college at an FAANG who saves a bit will be a millionaire by 30. Its not about purely not working out, although I would say natural strength is a part of it (almost every wrestler can increase his in-match power through lifting still), its about the muscles being coordinated and firing at the right angles and right times to actually accomplish something. Are you sure any of that is a real thing? And rich people, on average, receive better medical care particularly rich white people. Or rather, that the concept of Asperger autism is more related to giftedness, and not to autism. Would you mind clarifying what you mean by narcissist? I mean, if you go with The Last Psychiatrists standards we are basically all narcissists and to some extent the claim Comey is a narcissist loses meaning. The Tower vs Foundation model is probably an oversimplification of something like this. And, being a fairly intelligent person himself, he agreed that it didnt make much sense, but it didnt change that fact that he was able to overpower equally muscular people through sheer force in the ring. What will really make someone come off as intelligent within that group is going to be something like 99% IQ plus 99% along that other stuff. Maybe specific areas for different such quirks of processing have some optimal Goldilocks zones for their values, which if all fit might give you some sort of the upper bounds of human intelligence-maybe there are multiple such optimal/viable configurations, however hitting all the targets simultaneously must be relatively rare, and some of the targets might be smallish, others might be essentially fixed without some de novo mutation for likely good evolutionary reasons. Drink your Brawndo! You can squeeze out a little more gain by filtering just the frequencies that feed back, but if you keep going up it wont take long at all before there are too many to filter. Epistemic status: not too bad, certainly good enough to have my old head of department, a grand old neurogeneticist interested in this if still maintaining healthy scientific skepticism. If the foundation isnt strong enough for the tower, the system fails, you develop autism, and you get a collection of symptoms possibly including low intelligence. Causation not detected through a randomized controlled trial. I thought we were starting to get clear evidence that genes associated with IQ (through the proxy of years of education completed) were being selected AGAINST in 20th century society, which is intuitive (educated people on average have fewer children, because time during child-bearing years is consumed with schooling). I strongly doubt that. completely unfalsifiable, and 2.) While their exact numbers are doubtful, I think the overall finding that common familial genes are much more important than rare de novo mutations survives and is important. The population mean for many of those parameters is off from the optimal value for thinking, perhaps because theres some tradeoff encoded there that doesnt matter as much now as in the past. If genes for autism (without autism itself) increase intelligence, we should expect these people to be unusually smart. There is then a threshold effect with enough perceptual ability and intelligence, the developing brain finds ways to route around the broken normal processes to get stuff done. (Is that still seen as credible? (1) genes that promote autism are correlated with IQ and Rare de novo mutations, ie the autistic child gets a new mutation that their non-autistic parent doesnt have. Genes are not something where you can say, this is good, more of it will be better. And of course theres always survivor bias. Normal is being concerned enough with appearing normal to try being normal, yes. This article explores piano lessons for non-verbal and autistic students as a means for creating new and necessary pathways for abstract logic inherent in higher education. Your model of too much of a good thing seems to, to my non-doctor, non-expert mind, fit perfectly. Naive, narcissistic, completely detached from human interaction. Do a lot of super smart people play the game? A lot of dog breeds, particularly those that are very small (like Teacup Yorkies), very large (like Great Danes), or otherwise very different from the default canine somatoform (like Pugs), tend to suffer from health problems at a vastly higher rate than mutts or more natural breeds (e.g. I talk more about this in parts 2 and 3 here. The best-studied are probably obstetric complications, eg a baby gets stuck in the birth canal and cant breathe for a long time. Ive since backed off of it a bit, maybe not because I think its wrong but because theres possibly a larger and more interesting explanation for what we see, which is that both the collection of deficits that go with low-functioning ASD and the neural efficiencies that go with high IQ are both at least partially caused by a twitchier immune system, which in turn is creating a different profile of synaptic pruning as the brain develops. 6 6 6 6 6 marries 6 6 6 6 6, decent chance of getting a 9 9 8 7 9 stone cold genius. Keep in mind, my sample size is small. As far as I can tell, the explosion in diagnoses is primarily driven not by the very low-functioning (everyone could already tell that non-verbal folks had something wrong with them) but by increased diagnosis of medium-to-high-functioning people. There are different levels of the concept we call perfect pitch. The existence of a well-defined subset of low IQ people whose relatives have higher-than-predicted IQs is a surprising finding that cuts through the measurement difficulties and suggests that this is a real phenomenon. Well, there is a point, but it takes a long time to grasp it, at which point you are significantly behind people who went along with them without questioning them. Id say so. Both moderate to high IQ. We were grouped with autistic including low functioning autistics. He (I presume) seems to be a bad conversationalist, likely through lack of practice. When people came to our defense, it was generally with an idea I didnt like too much: that maybe there were different types of intelligence and if we sucked at [x] we must surely be good at [y]like life was an RPG character generator or something. or, most spicily: several essentailly different things being lumped together under the label autism spectrum. Low-functioning autism has all kinds of genetic linkages to all kinds of different genetic syndromes that cause brain damage, damage that often extends beyond autistic symptoms. Youre starting with the premise intelligence is incompatible with normality and then reflexively dismissing all evidence to the contrary with theyre not really normal, theyre just pretending. Which is 1.) I feel like unless your definition of normal includes non-highly intelligent this is just so far from true. Flynn effect vs genetic selection. In a situation where being outcast from the tribe means that the tribe is going to die instead of the outcast, then the tribe had better learn to put up or shut up. You don't have to be a diagnosed autist to be like that. https://www.spectrumnews.org/news/race-class-contribute-disparities-autism-diagnoses/. But there is a critical point in the system, the feedback point, after which more isnt just too much of a good thing the behavior of the system changes qualitatively and the whole thing breaks down. control children (though see the discussion here) for some debate over how seriously to take this; I am less sure this is accurate than most of the other statistics mentioned here. Yes, I was thinking something very similar: Broadly speaking, its pretty clear that intelligence differeces come from differences in brain structure or organization, macroscopic and/or microscopic. For such individuals, perfect pitch is almost always the indicator that highly refined processing is available in these areas of immediate reception of sound. Well, much debate here gets into the distinction between people with high functioning autism and Aspergers, due to a muddling at that end of the scale. https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2018-03-06/humanity-keeps-getting-smarter. Why do you think they arent sperging out about sportsball? Shes unable to work in a normal public school classroom, but luckily we have a charter school that specializes in children with autism that has worked well for her. We have another child who shows no autistic traits. No guarantees in biology, but you can try to find a future partner with no such family history. There are so many ways to be weird and out of touch with the people around you, related to very different sets of issues and characteristics. The best civil servants get an extra allowance of weirdness points to allocate as necessary. This is what we find; see Table 4 here. The avoidance of eye contact. I think youre exaggerating unilateralism, Hypoborean. I guess in a context-specific sense, normal is being defined as not-autistic? We just rarely see them because they dont hang out with us losers. Plausibly, a certain amount of narrowness and rigidity of focus will improve cognitive performance, whereas too much will cause impairment by making it too hard to get the big picture, switch attention and deal with competing stimuli etc. If relatives of autists are smarter, then that sounds to me like a regression towards the mean. I hesitate to make anything out of this, but whenever theres a study that links pre-natal stress to autism, my ears perk up a little. This is more or less a requirement if the system is to be robust and quickly adaptable to environmental variation. Meanwhile, placing people on the spectrum equalizes access to resources, including insurance coverage. Wheat something something something autism and schizophrenia. How much effort do people, particularly young people, put into being normal that is, into fitting in? 46.8k members in the slatestarcodex community. My personal bet would be that different sorts of mutations associated with autism could be slotted into abstract prior-mapping-affecting categories manifesting through tiny quirks of cellular chemistry, and some degree of interplay between them and those that affect general nervous tissue metabolism and anatomy might also be the case. This means autism risk genes must be doing something good. Within our filter bubble, people have similar levels of status, so they can be smart but not charismatic or charismatic but not smart. Indeed, higher survival rates over time might also explain why were seeing a real increase in the number of autistic children over time more of them are living long enough to be diagnosed with autism in the first place. >The Gardner study seems to suggest its a very weakly elevated risk, maybe only 1.1x or 1.2x relative risk. Many people she knew, she said, felt duped by psychiatrists, for example, who they felt. So for example, bench is largely worthless if youre not pushing people away from you. I dont think cystic fibrosis works that way. My vague recollection on this is a large portion of population variance in IQ is additive (like 30 or 40%? These things are incredibly synergistic in some people, allowing them to do exceptional things, we notice thisso we start to associate them with one anotherbut the presence of one means absolutely nothing about the presence of any others in general, and you need to scale up all or at least many of them to get any good returnsworse, some factors may not need to go any higher, otherwise theyll just be a hindrance. It could be one of the categorization problems Scott was talking about in Against Against Autism Cures. If youre not low-functioning but dont have strong enough autistic traits to be clearly a high-functioning autistic, you dont have autism youre just a little weird? It seems that a process like this could conceptually produce an artificial bimodal distribution, even if the traits arent bimodally distributed. This is Crespi 2016, Autism As A Disorder Of High Intelligence. So the genes are a correlation but not a cause of the autism, which is due to factors incidentally related to the high IQ, for example the advanced age of the parents? Perhaps different people train their brain using different optimization strategies, and when you optimize too well you risk ending up in the autistic basin of configuration space, which does well in the environment a fetus or baby faces. I also need alternative means to handle a wide variety of learning and perceptual tasks. . And yes, I know the survey showed that the average SSC reader had an IQ of 138, but Im extremely skeptical of that finding too. I would argue the same standardization that has raised IQ generally actually de-selects for geniuses in many caseswe spend a lot of time getting people to think and act a certain way and behave efficiently etc. Many such cases with Aspergers (me too), whereas for high functioning autism the deficit is inverted for processing vs visuo-spatial. That leads me to the following guess. My 3rd child, a girl, is much lower functioning. Thank you for introducing me to him. So in that sense, maybe its just a phrasing problem. Her condition presents with some speech and language processing difficulties. Thats exactly what we observe here. If I personally were one of these hypothetical genius scientists in possession of technology that could reshape the world, I think that the most optimal strategy for me would be to offer this technology to the U.S. in exchange for a large sum of money say, $50 million. My problem with this kind of model is that some people are geniuses but dont have autism. This is a common situation, but not with many genes of small effect. how could they recruit in such a way as to get a representative sample? Each of us have different stories to share. I cant tell if this is evidence against Crespi or whether since all intellectual abilities are correlated this is just the shadow of their high perceptual intelligence, and if we directly looked at perceptual-to-verbal ratio we would see it was lower than expected. How does age of parents figure in? (All three were C-section births.) Smart people who can manage things by themselves and mask the effects of their autism from others dont get diagnosed, because among other things they dont want to see a psychiatrist and can figure out how to stop people from forcing them to; they can also know the correct answer to psychiatric interviews and can figure out that the things currently bothering them are less likely to continue if they provide the correct answers. What will be interesting to see if we get weeded out before getting close to the top, and if the breakdown will stay the same. I get to see what happens to those kids otherwise, they become adults who ace every math exam, but are unable to buy pants. My stats-fu isnt strong enough to know if this actually pencils out, though. IQb + high genetic load: autism with lowish IQ, always diagnosed as autist Lazy googling yields claims around 80% narrow-sense (additive) heritability for height which is comparable to the total heritability of IQ. If autism makes people less likely to reproduce, why would autism risk genes stick around in the human population? The same principle can be applied to genetic traits.
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